So he said: "O Mufaddal, no one from the people of knowledge is able to separate between the Name and the Meaning (al-Ma'na), except that the Meaning is above it because he invented it from the light of the Essence.

So there is no difference and no separation between him and the light. And for the sake of that he said: 'I and Ali are like these two,' as an indication from him to the knowers ('arifin) that there is no separation there. And if there were a separation between him and him, he would have been a person other than him, and this is the explicit disbelief. Have you not heard His saying: 'They wish to separate between Allah and His messengers' and His saying: 'And they sever that which Allah has ordered to be joined'? Its intimation to the knowers is that it should be said that between Allah and His name is an intermediary. And for the sake of this he said: 'I and Ali are like these two,' because he is the beginning of the names and the first of those named.